tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post1467103970494397517..comments2023-05-24T23:33:57.516+10:00Comments on My Unwelcome Stranger: A man for all tongues (3) FINALDenis Wrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12786035137418348609noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-15028640804923264442012-03-27T09:01:07.336+11:002012-03-27T09:01:07.336+11:00'The Wonder..'has just been reprinted in I...'The Wonder..'has just been reprinted in India by popular demand after being unavailable for some time. That's how well regarded it is.<br /><br />JulieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-10085889740061411362012-03-26T22:13:22.158+11:002012-03-26T22:13:22.158+11:00Yes. By the way, that poem I mentioned was more a ...Yes. By the way, that poem I mentioned was more a demo of what you could <i>do</i> writing in Sanskrit, and Bash remarked that in content it wasn't all that great. I get that....Denis Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786035137418348609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-83816030420510780352012-03-26T22:09:31.727+11:002012-03-26T22:09:31.727+11:00I first met up with Sanskrit from A L Basham's...I first met up with Sanskrit from A L Basham's <i>The Wonder That Was India</i> (still, in my view, one of the best books <i>ever</i> for an intro to Indian culture), and was blown away by the chapter on classical Indian literature, particularly the example of an entire poem composed of 1-syllable 3-character words. And that was in translated form. (Oh, I have some great stories about meeting Bash, too!)Denis Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786035137418348609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-75724651669327549072012-03-26T10:18:31.732+11:002012-03-26T10:18:31.732+11:00Precisely why I'm studying it, Julie. Some of...Precisely why I'm studying it, Julie. Some of the English translations can be very misleading as they are interpretations based on the understanding of the translator. I was very fortunate to have been schooled in Hindu philosophy by a former Hindu monk who came out to the west to teach a simple, ancient Tantric form of meditation. He had the amazing ability to explain Hindu concepts in ways that westerners could understand. I had no idea I was learning Hinduism until I studied it much later. So I feel sometimes I can detect when a translation is not quite accurate, although I may be fooling myself.<br /><br />And yes, I will have to plug away at learning it for thousands of years. Fortunately Hindu philosophy allows me to do this and to take my time :).Joanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04715081266571704126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-49293973424756608952012-03-25T19:00:59.037+11:002012-03-25T19:00:59.037+11:00Heavens! Well explained, Joan. However, 'insan...Heavens! Well explained, Joan. However, 'insane' as Sanskrit may appear, it contains some of the most profound,satisfying philosophical concepts known to humankind. Thus, it makes available thoughts we couldn't otherwise have! So people keep plugging away at learning it after these thousands of years:)<br /><br />PS No Denis, I'm not left handed but you are, along with all those other South Asianists. Maybe that paragraph gives one seed of an idea why (except for the South Asianist bit).<br /><br />JulieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-65049599322321874282012-03-24T11:25:58.601+11:002012-03-24T11:25:58.601+11:00I know this discussion has left Sanskrit far behin...I know this discussion has left Sanskrit far behind, but I thought I might explain why it might be an insane language and the most difficult to learn.<br /><br />First, it's an inflected language, which means that each noun and accompanying adjectives have 7 cases which indicate direction -- to, from, in, at, subject, object etc. No prepositions. Each noun has 3 numbers - singular, dual, plural. So for each noun, that means 21 different endings.<br /><br />Now, nouns are not so simple. They come in 3 genders - feminine, masculine, neuter. Each has its own ending, and for each ending, there are 21 different case endings.<br /><br />Now, that's not as simple as it sounds. Each gender has numerous endings, such as short "a", long "a", short "i", long "i", short "u" -- you get the picture. Both vowel and consanant endings. Each of these endings, and there are many many many, have 21 different case endings.<br /><br />This is becoming exponential and logarithmic. And these are just the nouns!!<br /><br />Also, endings of words change with the beginning letter of the next word. For example, "as" becomes "o" or "ah" or stays "as" depening on the first letter of the next word. This is called sandhi and it applies to both vowel and consanant endings. Fortunately, there are convenient charts which help you work out what the hell is going on. <br /><br />And then there are the gunas, which determine other changes to word endings, and I won't bore you with those because I don't completely understand them after all this time.<br /><br />And then wordsarestrungtogethersoyouhavetoknowquiteabitbeforeyoucanworkoutwhereonewordendsandthenextbegins.<br /><br />And finally, it is written in a completely different script.<br /><br />"Insane" seems to be a very mild description of this language.Joanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04715081266571704126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-41773909040901981472012-03-24T00:11:18.407+11:002012-03-24T00:11:18.407+11:00Hang on. You're not left-handed!Hang on. You're not left-handed!Denis Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786035137418348609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-80537855318115596162012-03-23T20:39:13.723+11:002012-03-23T20:39:13.723+11:00Did you read that left handedness is related to th...Did you read that left handedness is related to this testosterone issue?<br /><br />PS My mother always proudly relates that I could speak whole nursery rhymes aged one. So there. Are you surprised that I talk so much :)<br /><br />JulieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-50348517006701773502012-03-23T01:27:51.250+11:002012-03-23T01:27:51.250+11:00It's interesting and to me confirms my own fee...It's interesting and to me confirms my own feelings about language learning. It's both heredity and environment, different proportions for different people. Tracey and Christian, e.g., have an amazing facility for music - not surprising with their background, both in genes and experience, but some of it just can't be taught. You either have it or you haven't, and this applies to so many skills and talents. <br /><br />Then you get the 'geniuses' in some field, or the freaks, who might remember the telephone directory or do unbelievable computations effortlessly. <br /><br />Part of what sets the Alan Treloars of the world apart is to be able to relate diverse things in unique or complex ways.<br /><br />As to the testosterone, I have to leave that one to the researchers!Denis Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786035137418348609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-16311386772912824712012-03-23T01:14:07.747+11:002012-03-23T01:14:07.747+11:00Joan - I just found your interesting comment. You ...Joan - I just found your interesting comment. You were the person I hoped would respond because you had more to do with Alan than most of us. I've no doubt he would be demanding (in that quiet way of his!)<br /><br />That does sound like good advice about acquiring the language if unable to devote your entire life to it. Although I learned Hindi and Bengali, I don't think I could have coped with learning these languages through Alan's technique. <br /><br />Sanskrit is also different in that it has brilliant structure and needs to be learnt with thoroughness - it's almost all or nothing. <br /><br />You're probably aware that when the European scholars, notably the Germans philologists (who had a closer affinity with it than anyone else) 'discovered' Sanskrit in the C19, they were so enraptured by its precision that this study laid the basis for all modern comparative philology.<br /><br />My belief about learning a language is that the best way is to do it the way most people do in real life outside of formal teaching. They learn nouns, acquire some verbs and adjectives, make heaps of mistakes but eventually get a working knowledge of it. <br /><br />This is all driven by motivation. So, your method has merit. Picking up 20 new words a week, and revising the ones you know, would soon allow you to make yourself understood.Denis Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786035137418348609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-28801545870659500592012-03-22T14:46:07.498+11:002012-03-22T14:46:07.498+11:00Oh hello! I came here to post this I read today:
...Oh hello! I came here to post this I read today:<br /><br />http://www.watoday.com.au/technology/technology-news/multilingual-teen-finds-vibrant-online-tribe-of-fellow-polyglots-20120316-1valq.html<br /><br />It's about people who are born, it seems, with a languages gift. They are called 'polyglots'. The article is very interesting, especially the last paragraph regarding testosterone levels in the womb.<br /><br />You're doing very well Joan, esp considering all else you do!<br /><br />JulieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-6168716811891881412012-03-22T13:11:35.835+11:002012-03-22T13:11:35.835+11:00Julie alerted me to these blogs on Alan Treloar. ...Julie alerted me to these blogs on Alan Treloar. I was very busy with work when they were posted and unfortunately missed them. I studied Sanskrit with Alan Treloar in 2001 for several months. The text we used was written in the 1890s and Alan's teaching style was straight from the same period.<br /><br />We studied one chapter a week, and in a 2-hour lecture on Fridays, Alan would stand at the front of the class are read the lesson from the book, word for word. No gown, though. When he wanted to explain a term more clearly, he would write on the white board in classical Greek.<br /><br />Well, it was all Greek to me, and despite studying every day for at least 3 hours and completing up to lesson 18, I learned very little and came away not being able to read the most simple of Sanskrit sentences. I think the other students were finding it an uphill slog, too. Alan was accustomed to students from another century, not today's students with a million other things on their minds.<br /><br />Alan gave me some very good advice, though. After he stopped teaching, for health reasons, he advised me to translate one sentence per day. For a long while, I left my Sanskrit work to two weeks per year, when I take retreats. I was going backwards, forgetting more than I remembered. So I took his advice, and for the last several years, I have translated at least a few words out of a sentence every morning, and gradually, gradually, I am learning this "insane" language, as language scholar, Mun Keat Choong, termed it.<br /><br />While I am hopeless at reading it outright, I have embarked on a project of comparing translations of the Yoga Sutras. I have 3 translations in English, and where they differ, I translate the original Sanskrit for myself and decide which, if any, is the most suitable translation. This is the best I can hope for in this life. At a few words per day, I think I'm doing okay.Joanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04715081266571704126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-42933406927810679732012-03-12T19:59:50.362+11:002012-03-12T19:59:50.362+11:00I spent the better part of an afternoon reading De...I spent the better part of an afternoon reading Denis's earlier blogs on Mysticism (last September) and the above link to Nitya Chaitanya Yati. I'd really recommend both - wonderful.<br /><br />Julie MAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-56142117953434263092012-03-12T01:04:14.857+11:002012-03-12T01:04:14.857+11:00Maybe one day you'll go to Xian and visit the ...Maybe one day you'll go to Xian and visit the entire Entombed Warriors site! I have taken two tour groups to China and of course the site was a must-see on the itinerary. It gives you a better picture (though only a small portion of what lies beneath.)<br /><br />The story of the human race is so large, so viewable through all the academic disciplines, that no matter how much we get, it's just a tiny series of slivers. It's what we've got. I've spent my whole life trying to disentangle a few tiny bits of it. But it's fascinating and a great privilege to have been part of that exploration.<br /><br />Thank you for your kind comments!Denis Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786035137418348609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-30266690887768574782012-03-12T00:54:22.561+11:002012-03-12T00:54:22.561+11:00The start of that thread is
http://deniswright.bl...The start of that thread is<br /><br />http://deniswright.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/religion-philosophy-and-me-pt-1.html<br /><br />I now see there were some great comments on the third one of those that I never got to respond to. I think I must have believed I was about to answer them in the next part, but as we know, that is still to be written.Denis Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786035137418348609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-29563800702496981882012-03-12T00:45:42.211+11:002012-03-12T00:45:42.211+11:00I would be very surprised if all the lectures have...I would be very surprised if all the lectures haven't been kept by his family. It seems to me a good project for everything to be scanned so that there is a permanent digital record. For all I know, this may already be in hand, but it's a challenging and time-consuming task. <br /><br />There is a tribute site which I found only when seeing what information was available about Alan online:<br /><br />http://www.respectance.com.au/AlanTreloar<br /><br />I confess to not having searched it thoroughly but I will now add a reference to these memories of him on it, if they are accepted.<br /><br />Yes, I am aware that I began that and have yet to add the part(s) you are talking about re interpretation of concepts of God. Things seem to come in their own time. I can link it all together like other segments written at different times.<br /><br />The virtue of a wiki style of blog!Denis Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786035137418348609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-90476997254534112252012-03-12T00:07:23.812+11:002012-03-12T00:07:23.812+11:00Thank you Denis your final installment was fascina...Thank you Denis your final installment was fascinating. Your recounts remind me of the exhibition of the Terracotta Warriors that visited our shores last year. Truly extraordinary but just a glimpse of the magnificence of the whole story. Like your tales Denis give us a hint of the richness, a tantalising aroma, a little of a mystery revealed. I am grateful Denis<br />Debbie GreenDebbie Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09394407763841434057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-56870211510676395132012-03-11T13:57:45.681+11:002012-03-11T13:57:45.681+11:00Of course you wrote about mystical experience. I&#...Of course you wrote about mystical experience. I've just re-read the post referred to in the link above (Religion, Philosophy and Me: mysticism and dogma). I must have been distracted at the time:) Everyone should read that, it's wonderful.<br /><br />JulieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5722735165669239585.post-43088001915879734302012-03-11T13:46:45.633+11:002012-03-11T13:46:45.633+11:00I wonder if Alan's lecture, as it was written,...I wonder if Alan's lecture, as it was written, is still available to be read?<br /><br />While on the subject of words and meaning, weren't you going to write about the meanings (or interpretations) of the idea "God" sometime? Or have you, and I missed it?<br /><br />Julie MAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com